In this 34-minute episode of Artblog Radio, host Logan Cryer speaks with Raymo Ventura and Tamara Hahn, co-founders of the Philadelphia-based animation studio Deux Wave. The artists met as freelancers in New York, but would eventually move back to their home town of Philadelphia to form the studio. Deux Wave continues to expand in size and scope, landing gigs with clients such as Spotify, Billie Eilish, and Philadelphia favorite, Tierra Whack! Logan and Deux Wave cover everything from how they got their start, what it’s like to work with clients, big and small, and artist’s block. Plus, Raymo Ventura’s new film Nuevo Rico, which premiered in Philadelphia, virtually, during the 10th annual Philadelphia Latino Film Festival earlier this year!
‘Nuevo Rico’ will have its Philadelphia premiere in-person screening during BlackStar Film Festival– also in its 10th year– August 4-5, 2021. The full festival runs August 4-8. Tickets available on BlackStar’s website.
You can listen to Artblog Radio on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Thank you to Kyle McKay for composing Artblog Radio’s original podcast intro and outro!
Transcription
Logan Cryer: [00:00:12] Hello friends, you are listening to Artblog radio recorded in Philadelphia. My name is Logan Cryer, and in this episode, you will hear a conversation with myself and the two animation directors of Deux Wave: Raymo Ventura and Tamara Hahn. Deux Wave is a Philadelphia-based animation studio that creates music videos, short live performance, visuals, social media content, and commercials for a range of clientele, including Adult Swim, Spotify, Billie Eilish, Bad Bunny, and many more. As animators, Raymo and Tammy have an eclectic style that references MTV-era graphics, nostalgic media, surrealism, and craft.
Raymo is the creative director for Nuevo Rico, an animated short film following two siblings in a futurist Puerto Rico. Nuevo Rico will have its Philadelphia premiere as part of the Blackstar film festival in early August. In this episode, Raymo and Tammy tell me about how they got their start in animation.
We talk about their stylistic approach and they give advice for how to navigate working in the commercial world.
Tamara Hahn: [00:01:24] For me, it was, I took an art class my senior year of high school, and it was the only thing that I didn’t really suck at (laughs). And I had a great art teacher that was really, was like, “wow, your stuff’s not that bad!” And it was the first time that anybody had given me like positive feedback on like anything like academic wise, you know, I was so lost.
I was just thinking I was going to become like a flight stewardess and he was like, you should pursue art. And I was like, “you know? maybe I will.” So I pretty much owe everything to my art school teacher, because he like pushed me and like saw something in me that I had no idea. I mean, I, my skills back then were so, I mean, non-existent, you know, but he saw something so…
And I always had an interest in animation, but I didn’t really know that that was like a career path that I could even really take. I love watching animation, but I never thought it would be possible to actually work in animation, primarily stop motion. I studied stop motion up at the School of Visual Arts in New York.
Mainly because when I was young, I was so obsessed with the nightmare before Christmas and just like trying to figure out what was going on in that, you know, and why I couldn’t look away, but it was scary, but loving and just that like juxtaposition, you know? And so I studied animation up in New York and – that’s where I got my start.
Raymo Ventura: [00:02:53] Well, and for me um, my, my first love was the music. Like in high school I was started DJ-ing and like making music. And then for college, I initially went to Berklee College of Music up in Boston for music scoring and performance and stuff and learning how to make beats and working with like, a lot of different types of musicians from classical musicians, jazz musicians, rap artists. So it was doing music for a while, but like I played on a few different bands and I always wanted to like, you know, make visuals for our shows and flyers.
Like I was the defacto the flyer person, to make things, you know, and then you know, animation came really, you know, I always loved animation and like, I guess one of my biggest influences was Jake Hubert. In California, he made this film called Wave Twisters, which was like an animated film done with all scratching and like, and TV animation, really weird, weird 30 minute film.
And you know, from that, I was like, okay, that’s just a nice way of like, you know, using that device as a storytelling instrument. I guess maybe like 10 years ago, I decided like, I wanted to make my own music videos, but you know, learning after effects was like, you know, challenging itself, you know?
So I wanted to go to school to help you learn more of that stuff. And I found that like doing tutorials online, like there was this school in Sweden called Piper Island that kind of like, accelerated your career where you can go there for a year to develop your portfolio and meet a lot of different creatives and, just a different world of people who are in the field.
And just like getting to know, like what, I mean, animation is so broad, it can be like illustration or it could be stop motion, live action, like, just knowing what companies did what. So, yeah, I took a flight over to Sweden. and study there for like a year, and then afterwards got a job placement over in New York and then in Amsterdam.
So like I kind of went all over the place for a bit, and then Buenos Aires for another year, and then back here like 2014, I guess? I kind of settle back into Philly, which is my hometown. And then I met Tammy in New York while we were freelancing.
Logan Cryer: [00:05:13] Yeah, something I’m curious about, like, as you’re saying, animation could be a huge range of things. Was there something about the style that both of you had developed, that you were like, “oh, this person is doing something that’s kind of in line with what I’m thinking about.”
Raymo Ventura: [00:05:29] Yeah, I mean, for both, I mean, for the, both of us, like, you know, we love like nostalgic animation stuff, like, you know, the MTV era, things from the nineties and also like, you know, we love how lo-fi looks just because we can’t afford like $2,000 cameras, you know, and I’d rather not spend money on that, you know, we’re still using my old Handycam (laughs) the one I got in like the nineties, I don’t know, just kind of put that stuff to use.
You know, I’d rather focus our efforts in like techniques. Like always try to experiment with different ways to like, you know, put things, you know.
Tamara Hahn: [00:06:11] Yeah, I think that our styles kind of mash up in like, Raymo’s very sound driven and very like tech savvy and an amazing animator and like just freestyles a lot. And my end is more like pop building and like miniatures and more the stop motion, so when we like team up, it’s just this like mixed media mashup, which creates like pretty interesting work, you know?
‘Cause it’s not just 2d, it’s not just 3d. Like one shot can be a miniature prop and the next would be graphic design. And you know, Raymo’s amazing with like mixing in sound design and music that fits it. So it’s just like a totally immersive, you know, visual/audio kind of experience.
Raymo Ventura: [00:06:58] Yeah. I mean, when you approach it like a DJ set (laughs), it’s like do a little bit of this, you know, like sample like songs or some elements here, kind of piece it all together and just like, you know, find a way to make it work within the project, you know? Like, when I found my working in some animation studios, like everybody would do a lot of work, but there’s a lot of wasted work.
Like, you know, some studios it’s like, “hey, I worked two weeks.” Someone, somebody in the room would be working on something for two weeks and then it doesn’t end up in like the film or whatever. It’s like, it’s such a shame sometimes. Cause they put all this effort into it. You know, with our projects, we try to streamline it where, you know, we accept everything that comes our way and we just figure out where to like, mine everything, and try to make everything work in some way, you know.
Logan Cryer: [00:07:46] Yeah, that’s really interesting. I hadn’t thought about that before, like of the wasted work of animation. Because looking at the style that you all have as Deux Wave, which I’ll ask you to talk a little bit more about, it does feel a little bit like it’s like collage, it’s like found materials, but it’s also happening in an animation and digitally, but also there’s like handcrafted and physical elements as well.
It definitely feels like you’re using every available resource in order to do what you’re doing. And so to that point, I would like for you to talk a little bit more about Deux Wave and how that formed as a business. And also, how you came to have this really signature style.
When you go to the website, it’s so- you really look at everything and it feels so, I guess confident is the word. It has, like this really unique brand. And I won’t go into it too much, I’ll let you all talk about it, but yeah. How did you get to forming Deux Wave together?
Tamara Hahn: [00:08:50] So we’re, we’re both independent freelancers. We have been for like 10 plus years. And we were both up in New York working, like doing the daily grind, which is like working in studios, you know, 10 to seven. You know, like a lot of the time, there’s a lot of dead time where you’re just kind of googling things and reading stuff. And we just like, weren’t happy, you know, (laughs) it was like, oh my god, like all this amount of time that we’re just like wasting, you know? And so we met at an animation studio up in New York and we just were like standing outside talking and I was like, “Oh, I’m from Philly.” He was like, “I’m from Philly.” And we were like, fuck this place (laughs). And we kind of just like moved back down to Philly around the same time. And you know, he has his thing which is FoShoandTell and like, I’ve started my thing, which is Tamarama Studios, but we were being approached for larger scale jobs, and at the time directors were reaching out to us independently, like, “hey, would you want to work on this or do you wanna work on that?” And people just started saying like, you know, if you guys kind of like, pair up and like, make it seem like you’re bigger than like just two independent artists, we can put you on bigger jobs.
So we were like, all right. And so we just like came up with a name and, you know, from then on, like, I think our first few jobs were with Adult Swim. And from then it kind of just like took off.
A lot of it’s word of mouth, you know, a lot of it’s, like, companies we’ve worked with that have like freelance producers that leave and go to another studio or work directly with clients. And so we’ve been, you know, it’s just been a growing, sort of…
Raymo Ventura: [00:10:31] Yeah, growing studio.
Tamara Hahn: [00:10:32] Studio over, like what, when did we start it?
Raymo Ventura: [00:10:34] 2015? 16?
Tamara Hahn: [00:10:32] Like yeah. Five years ago.
Raymo Ventura: [00:10:39] Yeah. yeah, I mean like a lot of stuff, you know, it’s progressed to the point where you know, like now we’ve expanded our family, so it’s like not just Tammy, but Roz. Roz who interned with us like a few years ago. And she’s from Moore College. And like, one of the things like, we wanted to like, people from local, locally wider approaches and learn some techniques and stuff, so, we just invited them in like Roz, Charlie, a lot from Moore and Temple. And yeah. And then from there, like, they start as interns and now, like we bring them up as freelancers and also working with like the amazing illustrators and animators in Philadelphia. You know, like throughout that time, I guess we helped, you know, initiate like Phil Animators’ group, you know, which is like a little collective of like animators in Philadelphia, because before, like everyone was all working separately from one another, nobody knew each other.
And now like, so, you know, we try to like every couple months to get together and do some sort of like events in our studio, we’ve done like gallery events where we do AR. Our gallery shows like- animators generally don’t get art shows. You know, it’s like usually on videos, but you know, with AR, things are like applications.
You can like have an animation or print out a frame. And like with the camera you can see it move. So they’ve been pretty successful at getting everybody together and contributing collaborating.
Tamara Hahn: [00:12:08] Yeah. It’s funny because like you would think up in New York it would be, and it was, like a tight knit community of animators, but I feel like the community down here is just way tighter. And I don’t know if it’s because it’s more intimate and smaller or people down here are just so really open for collaboration and it’s not just like, “well, this is my project,” you know?
So it’s been really nice like that we have now this kind of extended network of different artists, so when projects come up, you know, and we’re like, alright, well, it’d be cool to like, have like a little bit more of an illustrated style, like let’s bring in Kiran or Charlie, or like, oh, like Ryan does this awesome, like video recording, you know?
So like it’s definitely become like, Deux Wave has become more a collective, I would say, you know? And that’s why I think like our style feels so…broad, but also stylized, you know? ‘Cause there’s so many different aspects. There’s so many different lifestyles within there that like there’s like 10 artists behind the scenes, you know, each contributing like they look to make that Deux Wave style.
Raymo Ventura: [00:13:21] Yeah. And in addition to like our local group that we work with and talents, I mean, we also pair up with a lot of different studios around the globe, like for 3D work. We work a lot with one studio, our friends Trung and Chiwawa and in Poland. And they’re like the world beatbox champions (laughs).
Like they have their own rhythm of things, you know? Yeah. They’re awesome to work with, like to help us out on projects, and we help them out on theirs. And then also to New York down in Columbia is another studio, our homie Rafa, who runs his shop down there. And these are all people we just worked with, like on work projects.
And then now it’s like, when, projects get bigger and bigger and it’s like, okay, we need like a massive team to like, you know, get all the sections, you know? So like when we worked on the Bad Bunny and the Billie Eilish ones, you know, it’s like okay. We have to spread it. We can’t do everything ourselves. You know, like it’s something that like you know, it’d be nice to be spread out through.
Logan Cryer: [00:14:26] Yeah. Could you talk a little bit about, and I’m sure it’s different project to project, but what does working on a project actually look like? From getting the ask to work on it. Who’s making that ask, how’s that decision getting made? And then as you’re working with more people, are you in charge of them?
Is your client the one who’s kind of directing everyone? How does that really work? And I ask as, like, a complete outsider, so explain like I know nothing (laughs).
Raymo Ventura: [00:14:55] I mean, it really depends on the client and who it is, you know, and nature of the work, you know? I guess, you know, some artists like, you know, it’s direct to the client, so they’re a little bit more open. And like, and it usually starts with a treatment, I guess, you know, or we get a text like, “hey, we want to work on this.”
And then when we get a treatment, send the treatment and then we get the okay for the budget. Usually budget and schedules are always like the first thing that we always bring up on projects, you know, whether we accept it or not, and also what type of like, which, whether we accept it or not. So yeah, I guess that’s the start of it.
And then I guess it depends sometimes if we’re working with another director, you know, they dictate some of the direction on things, but we also dictate direction on animation. I guess it’s, it’s really like loose, you know? I mean, majority of the projects we keep loose.
Tamara Hahn: [00:15:53] Yeah. There’s a lot of different avenues and in terms of like where our work is shown, so like sometimes we’ll do commercial work sometimes we’ll do, like, a lot of the stuff we do is for like social media platforms with working directly with brands, we’ll do like music videos or documentaries, we’ll work directly with YouTube or Instagram.
So like, it really is all over the place in terms of like where and what. And you know, our preference is like working direct to the client or direct to, with the brand or artists or whoever, because it just cuts out a lot of the middleman. Which is like a lot of the problems that we see within commercial work, which is why we’ve been trying to slowly exit out of commercial work.
Just because there’s just so much, I mean, like we love freestyling and like, it’s like a dream for us to be contacted and say like, we want you to do you and like, do your style. Like that’s what we want. And when sometimes clients will come to us and be like “we want this to look like this” and they’re just sending us other, references of other people’s work that they want us to replicate. You know? And it’s like, we can do that and we have done that, you know, not replicating, but you know, like just switching out of our style to like fit within something they want. And, you know, we’re slowly like backing away from that and just trying to do the work that gives us the most creative freedom.
And you know, sometimes it really varies, and a lot of the times you don’t know. When you’re working with like the first time client, like how like how much you’re going to need to like, hold their hand. You know, a lot of times like they’ll send like a work in progress. And you’re like “here it is, like, just so you know, this isn’t addressed yet.” Like we’re still building out this, building out that, and people will come back like, “oh my God!” Because they like, can’t imagine what it’s going to look like. You know, they think that like, they just hired us and we’re like amateur hour. And we’re like, oh, and we have to hold their hand through the entire project because they have no imagination – which unfortunately is like a lot of the commercial work. ‘Cause they’re not artists, you know, they’re brands that like contact artists, they’re like marketing people, you know, they just like need to like hit certain numbers, you know? So for them it’s not so much like the creative and the art aspect as like the legal aspect and stuff like that. So like sometimes we’ll even be reached out for a pitch. So there’ll be other animation studios that this company is also reaching out to. So they’ll say, okay, like “give us the treatment,” you know, “what you would pitch?” Like just some like layouts and just like quick, like references and stuff. And then we pitch it and then they decide whether they want us or to go with another company.
You know, sometimes we’ll like invest like a week making this like awesome pitch and then we never hear from them again. So. Yeah, a lot of stuff. It’s like, we all know, and like, you’re not paid for it, you know? But like we invest into it because if we do win the job, then we can bring in our people and like, it could be like a good thing, you know?
But other times, you know, we’ve been reached out. Like we did a job with Spotify and it was like a dream job. Like they were just like, okay, here’s like the audio. And we like took apart the audio, made a script out of it, put like with each line of like the script, put like what the visual would be. Like handed out different minds to different artists, and then like threw it all together to make this like 60 second story. And like, there were no notes given. Every time we submitted like work in progress, they were like, “amazing looks great!” And we were like, “Wow.”
Raymo Ventura: [00:19:26] Yeah, those are the dreams. Like most times, you know, we get that a lot know. So it’s not like, it’s always a double-edged sword, you know, like with clients and lot of times like, repeat clients, or ones who we worked with before, they come back to us and they know what we’re expecting, and those are always great because then they know what we’re capable of and they just let us do our thing, and trust us, you know, it’s all about developing trust with clients or other directors or, you know, all sorts of people that we’re trying to reach out for a project, you know, so.
Logan Cryer: [00:19:58] At this point in terms of your career, is the most difficult part of what you’re doing, having to respond to clients’ notes and make adjustments, or just thinking like, you know, for a lot of people who have creative practices, sometimes you can kind of get into a wall or to a slump where you’re kind of creatively stuck.
Does that happen with you all, do you feel like? Or do you feel like at this point you’re just so on your mark, it’s more, you’re more so just adjusting to other people and figuring that out, and that’s the hardest part about working on a project?
Tamara Hahn: [00:20:33] I would say, yeah, like managing clients. ‘Cause we’re directors and we don’t have a producer on our team, so we basically are producers as well, and when we have multiple jobs going on at the same time, you know, we’re putting on like our directing hat and then our producer hat and like writing out schedules and writing out budgets. Which like, we’ve just kind of like done, like on the fly, you know, just like going off of what we’ve done in the past, but it’s hard sometimes, because I feel like as we scaled up, like, we’ve been less hands-on and more, just like more managing, which sometimes isn’t as fun, you know, because I want to be like building the miniature props instead I’m on like back-to-back phone calls, you know. So it’s cool, but at the same time, there’s like a bit of like, It’s hard to like, let go, I think a little bit, of like being the one, like in the project and just like, let other people like help, you know? But yeah.
Raymo Ventura: [00:21:41] Yeah. I mean, I think the hard thing for us is divvying up some of the workload, you know. And like, matching. Sometimes the client’s schedule doesn’t match our schedule, you know? And so like the client needs to give it something to get our- if we bring in freelancers for a certain week, but then like, you know, the client doesn’t get back to us until a couple of weeks later, but we already booked a freelancer, you know, for this week and they’re not available, but next week, and… So it’s always a challenge, like you know, just like getting everybody’s schedules on point and keeping things flexible with everyone. And making it fair, you know, to us as well as, the talent that we bring in. So that’s always the challenge, I think, managing schedules and budgets.
But other than that, I mean, you know, we still enjoy all the, like exploring the different techniques. I think what’s great about I guess our style, we’re not like locked into a specific technique. You know, we just, we continue to exploring things like whether we do it like, collage techniques or like, you know, like analog video or, you know, I guess like practicing scopes or like zoned sharp records, you know, we’re always trying to find something new and like, and then even like, you know, layer that on top of our older techniques that we’ve done, where we like print and scan things, maybe we can combine things, always try to flip it differently, you know, like, so that, while like, you know, maybe we, it’s kind of like you build it off of like previous project technique and make it better than the next point and so forth. So, yeah, that’s basically our work process, I guess.
Logan Cryer: [00:23:23] Yeah. And you, I think you both also have individual works or things that you do that are outside of a commercial venture. I think Raymo, you had a film that came out fairly recently?
Raymo Ventura: [00:23:37] Oh, yeah. So Nuevo Rico was I mean, you know, that was our studio film that our friend Chris hit us up about and, you know, we did that last year with one of the other studios that we work with regularly on projects, just kind of one of those things where, you know, we had like a script and like, we just wanted to like, you know, do something that wasn’t for a commercial environment, you know, or like, you know, just kind of like, you know, let loose.
It’s about like, you know, You know, like a futuristic Puerto Rico, Nuevo Rico, like where, you know, it’s a, siblings, like, you know, enter this whole world and, you know, for us it was great because it was like something that you don’t normally do, like narrative, illustrative, like animation. It’s something that we’re capable of, but in a narrative way, but like, this is really structured in the sense that, you know, we had like a whole storyboard that we followed throughout the script. You know, we found ways to improv throughout, you know, with like our team with our in-house animators and you know, like Roz through mixed media passes on animations, coming from Mexico City and from Colombia, so like, it was kind of like everything came together in our company in Philly and like, we bought it together with the sound design from our friend, Josh, who’s also based in Philly, and just kind of like work that together to make this 12 minute film. Definitely a quarantine project (laughs). And it was like something that was just a labor of love then, you know, it was like, I don’t know if we could have done it without then quarantine, you know, like, you know, within that time period.
But yeah, it was that, but I guess we started in March last year and finished in October and then submitted it to festivals here. So, went pretty great.
Logan Cryer: [00:25:27] Yeah, congratulations. And I think you all kind of talked about this a little bit earlier, but moving into more, maybe like, personally creative projects and ventures is something that you all are interested in?
Tamara Hahn: [00:25:42] Yeah. I mean, we’re all, we always have personal projects going on on the side and that’s kind of always a lot of what fuels us, you know, the projects that like brag out or like maybe aren’t as creative or, you know, we kind of offset that by like doing our own personal projects. And I think that’s like a lot of how we were also able to make it to where we’re at now is like choosing personal projects as a platform to like push, you know, our creative style and show people what we were capable of to give us a chance to do it.
So it was like, you know, let’s make four films on our own with no budget and then show them to people and say, look, what if we had a budget? You know, like how amazing would this be? You know, if I didn’t make this in my mom’s laundry room, with like $200, you know? But so I think, yeah, we always have like ideas and different concepts going on.
And like a lot of it just gets pushed to the side and takes forever to do because we always have other work that pops up.
Raymo Ventura: [00:26:45] I mean, we’ve managed. I mean, I feel like our timeline, like, within the last five years, we’ve done a lot of personal projects, that doesn’t seem like we have, but we’ve always kind of like snuck it in within our work stuff, you know, which has been great, you know, and also thanks to our team because we’re able to like divvy things up a bit, you know?
And like, so where, you know, we can each contribute some parts to it and then like, and then when it’s done, it drops, you know, so.
Logan Cryer: [00:27:12] To that point about having personal projects that you work on and how that kind of fuels the work that you’re doing for your job – do you have advice for animators or other designers for how to either maintain what they’re doing or creatively fuel themselves? If maybe they’re getting burnt out from working in a really commercialized space?
Raymo Ventura: [00:27:38] I mean, I guess advice. I mean, I don’t know, every animator is different, and designers… I mean, a lot of people want to do the same style over and, you know, like commit to a specific style, which is great, you know? Like get them hired as freelancers, you know? But I know after doing this for a while, I feel like what sparks me and my interest is just like, finding new techniques and finding new ways to like you know, explore, you know, I’m not the greatest, like cell animator work, draw, like consistent stuff, like same style over and over again.
But I love like the clot, the brick lodge approach. You know, you discover like happy accidents through experimentation. So yeah that’s how I approach it. And I always recommend that. And also like making friends in the industry, you know, I think, you know, like that’s some… we’ve had to rely a lot on our friends and… not rely, but like just bringing our friends to pull off projects and that’s always, you know, I’m grateful for that, you know?
Tamara Hahn: [00:28:43] Yeah.
I would say yeah, experimenting, like if you’re feeling like burnt out, like, it’s good to take time off, you know, I think as artists, like, we feel the need to like constantly be producing and creating. And if you’re not, like something’s wrong or like I’ll have a block or something, you know, and I feel like taking a step back is totally fine, you know, and sometimes it’s beneficial to like, take that breather and find inspiration.
That could be found anywhere. You know, it’s not in a computer, it’s not looking through like other people’s work, you know, it’s not going, like “I follow so many artists on Instagram, I’m constantly just looking at art,” you know? And I’m like, oh, like I need a detox sometimes, you know? And like, maybe I’ll go to the beach and like find a shell and I’ll be like “this is the inspiration I needed,” you know? So I feel like, you know, taking a breather, like not rushing, like the process and like still experimenting and exploring, you know, like what I loved growing up was that like my mom, like we always did like arts and crafts and like, it was so like fun and playful. And I feel like once you kind of become an adult and art’s more like your job, like you lose a lot of that playfulness and that fun, you know? I feel like you kind of need to like keep exploring and learning and evolving in order to keep that like interesting and like fun aspect there, so you don’t just get like pride and like question why you’re doing it anymore.
Raymo Ventura: [00:30:12] Yeah. And also at the end of the day, when we’re just making stuff, that’s like, I don’t know, like, I feel like people take things too seriously, you know, like, especially clients can be way too serious over things then, you know, like, I mean, you always want to just try to keep a level head with everything.
And just like, if you’re making something for somebody, you know, just do what you can and do the best you can and like, just like explain, you know, like, just be able to like, you know, share your views on how you did something. And nine times out of 10, you could easily like find a compromise with like a client on certain issues.
So yeah, there’s always problem solving that you can easily do, you know, so.
Tamara Hahn: [00:30:52] Yeah, it’s easy to fall down. Like to really like fall into this hole of micro. Like we call it pixel fucking in the industry (laughs). Like, you’re just like pixel fucking like every single frame, you know? And I’m like cutting out like a little tiny eggplant to like put into the seed. And the guy’s like, if you make it like 2% larger and I’m like, “oh, this is so insane” like in five years, like I, you know, like if this isn’t going to matter in five years, like, why am I like spending so much time on like one pixel? you know, but that’s like the, that’s the thing with like being an artist is like, you have to have that attention to detail, you know, that’s why people rely on you and I feel like you can kind of go too far down, you know, that you kind of have to pull yourself back out and be like okay. This doesn’t matter.
Like what does matter? You know, like when is like, when is the frame done, you know, like, is it ever done? You know, like I need to just like move on with it, you know? And so it’s finding that balance, you know, which is like always like a struggle, I feel like, but the more, you know, experience you have, the more you can pick and choose like what you should invest your time into. And like what, like, is just kind of easy to move on with.
Raymo Ventura: [00:32:08] Also deadlines, I think is very important, you know, whether it’s your own stuff, but even when you get approached by jobs, you know, knowing when this is the official end of a project, you know. That also helps. Like, you know, like making decisions, you know, not just for your sake and like, especially with clients where you have like you know, everybody feels like they’re creative directors, you know, (laughs) there’s like, there’s a creative director then above that creative director is another creative director and a creative director over that, you know?
So it’s like there’s like times where you have like seven decision makers before it gets back to you. So like, Yeah. I feel like, you know, you just, you know, just take everything with a grain of salt, you know, it’s just like, just go with the flow and, and deadlines help like, do those decision-makings and then maybe that helps make the decision for them, you know?
Logan Cryer: [00:33:03] Yeah. Well, we’re wrapping up. Thank you so much. This was really, really great. I love just like the laid back energy y’all have. It’s so nice! And the work you do is so incredible. Can you tell people if they want to see more of your work or contact you, what would be the best way to do so?
Tamara Hahn: [00:33:28] Slide into them DMs (laughs).
Raymo Ventura: [00:33:32] Yeah. I mean, Instagram is, I guess our only social media, we tried Facebook, but barely even on Facebook.
Tamara Hahn: [00:33:41] Yeah, probably Instagram or just like emailing us. Our email address is on our website…
Raymo Ventura: [00:33:47] If you want to write us a novel, do an email. I mean sometimes the DMs are just like, oh man, this is a whole story on here. You know, that’s cool though, you know what I mean, I appreciate like everyone’s support and everything. And like, they hit us up on things and yeah, we’re always like, our door’s always open so like, if you guys have any questions, we’d love to help out…
Logan Cryer: [00:34:13] Cool. Yeah. Thanks guys.
Raymo Ventura: [00:34:17] Thanks for having me.
Logan Cryer: [00:34:21] Thank you for listening to Artblog. Please be sure to listen to other episodes and to check out theartblog.org for more content on Philadelphia arts and culture.
