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Logan Cryer: Hey, you are listening to Artblog Radio recorded here in Philadelphia. My name is Logan Cryer, and in this episode you will hear a conversation between myself and the amazing Zindzi Harley. Zindzi Harley is a dedicated and enthusiastic brand strategist, curator, and creative consultant. She holds a BA in Arts Administration with a minor in art history from the University of Kentucky and has a MA in Museum studies from the University of the Arts.
Her research centers on the activism, histories and organizational frameworks of black museums. Zindzi is a true professional. So I start our conversation asking how she became so business savvy.
In looking up your bio and some more information about you, just how detailed and comprehensive your website is.
And I’m curious for you, where did you learn to take your professional front facing career. So seriously, that’s something that I feel like is relatively rare for a lot of freelancers, but especially I don’t see a lot of curators who market themselves in such a clear, direct business forward way.
So I was curious, is there someone or somewhere where you learned to do that or does that just feel intuitive? How did that come about? I.
Zindzi Harley: Well, one, thank you so much. That’s like a incredible compliment, honestly, for, because anybody with a business definitely wants to be communicating what they’re, you know, what service they’re providing or whatever it is that they’re sharing with, with their audience and the public.
So I really appreciate that. I think it’s a combination of things for me, for sure. I’ve always been a digital native. I kind of came into museums through digital spaces and social media. And prior to even, you know, pursuing like higher education in in museum studies or curatorial studies, I worked in like marketing campaigns, did a lot of influencer work as talent and I honestly barely like got through my undergraduate studies because I was always traveling and working with brands and doing things like that.
So I’m. Very accustomed to this, you know, idea of just marketing yourself in a certain kind of way and being a part of a more like commercial, like creative economy. So I think that’s one side of it, but I also think I. Over the last several years, being in Philadelphia, being able to connect with other business owners, other people that freelance in particular or do creative agency work similar to that.
What I do has been really beneficial because I’ve been able to learn from them. So all of my friends are business owners or, or freelance creatives. So. Debra Sharma, for example, she’s a cultural producer in Philadelphia and she’s been like an amazing mentor to me as well. And is a close girlfriend of mine.
And Melissa Aam, she’s a graphic designer that used to be based in Philly, but same just like learning from people in my network. Close friends, colleagues, they’ve really been able to kind of contribute to me further developing more of like a visual identity. And, and really aligning like the messaging in terms of my brand.
So I think that’s been very important. But also representation in the industry too. I think like with other museum or arts laborers too. I think the closest person that I can reference that I would say like I aspire to. Kind of follow a similar career path is probably Kimberly Drew. A lot of people think of her as like this influencer maybe within museum spaces, but she did come into museums, through social media outside of her academic studies, and now she’s moved into more curation and more, you know, projects that are allowing her to like.
Do more institutional work. So yeah, I think that’s a more well-rounded answer for, for how I’ve been able to format myself to be able to share what I do with the world.
Logan Cryer: That’s really interesting. I would imagine that part of that pathway from social media influencer to museums is just understanding that there needs to be some sort of interface in which a subject interacts with an audience.
And museums have, I guess they call it different things, but roles that are designed around visitor engagement. But to take that into a curatorial space is interesting because it’s saying it’s not just about. Getting people into the space to respond to the content, what the content is, has to change in such a way that people are even interested in engaging in it that way.
Yeah, definitely.
Zindzi Harley: I would say one of my overall goals has always been to like make museums mainstream as much as it’s become very trendy to go to museums and participate in more engagement with material culture and visual culture. I think that there’s still a lack of accessibility and true connection to museums for a lot of the visitors and we really don’t have the best protocol or practice around audience.
Evaluation. There’s several archetypes that you would study if you were to, you know, pursue like a museum studies degree that would teach you kind of about what types of visitors attend museums. But there’s, there’s too many, there’s so many different individuals that come to museums for different reasons.
So it’s a very limited scope of the way we think about the visitor. So I’ve always wanted to. Make the material within museums more representative of the people that are in the community, but like you said, make it more digestible for folks. So, I remember working at the PMA when I first arrived to Philly during my graduate studies at U Arts, and I was just working in development and visitor services.
But like I said, I had always really had my hands in social media and PR and was connected to, I. A lot of different brands and folks just through my, my network and Designs for Different Futures was an exhibition that was going on at the time and it was a, a really exciting show that was really looking at intersectionality and identity in the future of that I.
I decided to like, you know, just tweet about, about this show because I had went to a preview and I had a friend that worked at Fenty Beauty Rihanna’s whole line was, was in the show and I thought that was really cool. And I’m like, this is a really interesting moment to see in a museum of like a black woman’s brand being featured in this.
Context. So I reached out to a friend who worked in, in the marketing department at Fenty, and I’m like, I’m going to tweet about this. And we kind of did like a little minor PR stunt and it, it went viral very quickly. So I think moments like that are really where I think the dynamic experiences that I’ve had in my background make sense of, of being in museums, but also being in a more like commercial.
Fashion, beauty type of space and letting people know that like these things exist in museums. There’s representation for black women, all, all women, all types of people in museums. And they, and seeing themselves reflected and seeing like different versions of material culture, people are more inspired to go into museums and engage with them.
So.
Logan Cryer: I knew I was going to ask you some more like very philosophical questions because I know you think about this stuff so much, but I didn’t think I’d get into it so soon. But here we are. Like I think about the example you’re giving in terms of thinking about something contemporary that’s in a museum, typically I might think of, and I’m sure not, I’m not alone in this, of commercial galleries as a place to see.
What is the most contemporary, what is the most new and museums as a place to see maybe more historical materials and, and that can intersect, right? There is a space of this is what’s happening right now, and we recognize a certain historical significance, but I’m curious. For you, when you think about museums in terms of what it means for them to have a contemporary relevance versus a historical relevance and understanding that that historically what they have accumulated and what they represent, does not represent perhaps the audiences that they now want to engage or that they should be engaging.
So, yeah, I guess I’m curious to hear your thoughts about where the museum sits as a place that is both documenting, and I’m going to say expressing, but I’m not sure if that’s the right word.
Zindzi Harley: Yeah. I think I’m always grappling with, you know, this type of question. Being someone who understands the importance of, of these institutions as repositories for our history and documenting humanity and trying to do that authentically is something that’s really important to me.
I think there’s a lot of people that look like me and share a lot of the same sentiments about the industry and the field that are. Very much so, like, let’s burn museums down and like completely start over. I, I maybe felt that way at one point in my career, but it was a kind of naive point of view in my opinion.
And I think as I’ve continued to work, I’ve developed an even greater reverence for like what museums really are supposed to be doing. I don’t think they all are, are. Executing, you know, this mission perfectly. There’s a lot of difficult histories around like this idea of collecting and it is built off of a very like colonial, imperialist, white supremacist perspective of extraction.
So I think museums should continue to do that work, right, of being a resource because education is a huge component about them. But I think. Also having the nuance and, and the
360 view that comes with engaging with contemporary materials and being able to make those connections with the past, I think really allows us to think deeper about the world, think deeper about our communities and society, think about progression. And I think that’s where. We can be developing new ways of doing the work.
We can develop new philosophy and ideology around so many things. I think we could be solving more problems in the world within museums, and I think we also need to. Approach this idea of past and present existing simultaneously in one space as a means of inciting more conversation and making the space more democratic.
I think one of the reasons why a lot of institutions struggle to get younger audiences and more diverse audiences in the door is because they. Either lean towards one side of the spectrum or the other. And I think galleries are doing really incredible work right now. I think galleries have always been doing interesting work, but even more so now, they’re.
They’re responding to museums and, and they’re coming into fruition as a response to museums not always big as representative of what people would like to see when they’re coming into these spaces. So now we’re seeing like. Way more black women, way more people of color, way more galleries that are centering like queer artists and LGBTQAI+ communities.
I think this work is important as well because that grassroots approach to, you know, representation and solving that issue is. Is very much needed, and I think we, they should be working in tandem. We’re even seeing more collaborations between galleries and museums or gallerists coming from very unconventional backgrounds as well that just want to be able to make an impact or start to steward.
New approaches to collecting or support, supporting certain audiences that have typically been marginalized or not a part of those conversations. So I think it’s very important to think about past and present history and contemporary material all at the same time. It just gives us a more dynamic view of, of issues in our, in our communities and how we can solve them and, and storytelling.
So. These are great, great questions. Like it’s, it’s really refreshing to be able to talk about, talk about these things. You know, I’m always like trying to make it more clear what my, what my mission is as a curator, and I initially always approached it from this perspective of like, what is my curatorial statement, right?
Like as an artist, and I’m realizing more and more like. Just really owning up to like how I’ve come into this, into this field is a huge part of what has led me to the approach that I take to the work. So a lot of curators will, you know, state what their interest is and they’re like hyper. Niche like specialization is, and of course, like I love black contemporary art.
African art is something I’m very interested in. Contemporary image and visual culture is something that I’m very passionate about as well. But I’ve come to realize my main mission is to use digital space use these tactics and like. More unconventional means of engaging the audience and the visitor to leverage these institutional structures.
Curatorial practice is so glamorized, but there’s so much activism that’s happening in every single department of the museum, and the more that we get people to see that. And understand their worth in these spaces. I think it will continue to sustain us to do this work. But I also think it will continue to steward new people that will provide, you know, deeper perspectives into doing the work.
And it, that’s what’s going to transform the museum. Because these, you know, these institutions, it’s. It’s just a matter of, of shifting the perspective internally so that we could change the, the hegemony. You know, there’s nothing wrong with having like hierarchy and a structure to doing things because it can be, it could, it means you can touch a lot of people and make a large impact, but it, it more so is about like, what kind of impact do you want to have?
You, you always have to go back to that question of, of the why you’re doing this and who you’re supporting in doing this.
Logan Cryer: You get concerned about. I don’t have the statistics on me but I recognize that many are administrative, curatorial programs and colleges are closing. I mean, I know just in Philadelphia, like you mentioned, going to U Arts I went to Moore, which had a curatorial program that shut down a few years ago.
Does that. Concern you, even with the awareness that maybe the way people start to enter those spaces is not necessarily through those programs directly. Like it is interesting to think about what are the other fields of study through which someone could come to museums and try to, I’m going to say solve the problem of museums outside of approaching it through a, a certain practice or study of this is what curation looks like and this is how museums run. As someone who’s had that educational background I’m curious what you think about that.
Zindzi Harley: Yeah, I definitely think it is. It’s, it is a little concerning to me just to see the lack of support for people wanting to do, do this work.
And I think education is a huge thing that was instilled in me growing up is just to be a lifelong learner. So I think just not having those resources there is definitely not of benefit to so many people, but I think. It does offer up the opportunity to, like I said, take a different approach to the work.
I think. Seeing interdisciplinary collaboration in exhibition spaces has always been very inspiring to me, and I think it leads to really innovative work that progresses the field. And I love spaces that prioritize, like this interdisciplinary work. So I think it, it offers up this opportunity to. Make, make it what you will.
And I think that’s what a lot of graduate study programs really are. They’re not as much about like exactly what you’re doing in the curriculum in the class. Yes you are. You’re going to learn about some of these like traditions of, of curatorial practice. You’re going to learn about the institution and how it came to be and that, that heritage behind it.
But I never really aligned myself with. A, a lot of that material that was being shared with me in, in my coursework, I always found it really strange that. Why do we think about collecting, why do we start that conversation in Europe? Why is it, why is everything about the museum such a Eurocentric perspective when I, I know for a fact that black and brown people have been collecting and creating repositories for their own history and to honor like the storytelling behind that since the beginning of time.
So I always found that to just be very like. Paradoxical and it, it leads us into doing the work in a certain kind of way that really disadvantages a lot of people. So with that being said, I always had to step outside of the classroom to really get the substance out of the work that I was doing. So connecting with real people in the field that acknowledged these things that could point me in the direction of other.
Colleagues and peers that would be able to continue to support me doing this work, looking for opportunities that I felt were more decolonial than what I was being offered maybe in an academic space. And we all know academia comes from the same, you know, heritage as museums and institutions and they center the same people.
So I think it was very important for me to always look outside of the classroom regardless. Of, you know, that being something that I was consistently pursuing and even now pursuing the PhD in art theory, aesthetics and philosophy has, has been really interesting because initially when I had applied to school, I was going to apply to like six different schools.
I had been talking to my mentors and just felt a lot of stress and concern about like, going back into an institutional space again. And you know, they, they really advocated for me. I. To look for programs that were more conducive of the types of thinking that I was already having about the institution and not wanting to center it, but wanting to think about the, the artist and society and how, how we’re engaging in thinking about the world.
So, you know, the program that I’m in now with Institute for the doctoral studies in, in visual arts is a really different program. It’s very innovative in the way they think about our education. So I think, yeah, you always have to advocate for yourself and your own belief system, especially if it’s not prioritized within the space.
And it’s sad to definitely see a lot of these programs closing. And I, I know it’s been so hard on students, I. Particularly in Philadelphia, I’ve also been able to see like some of the response by other organizations that definitely don’t have the most resources, but are trying to accommodate, you know, so many people that are going through this really tough transition right now.
So it’s, yeah, it’s always inspiring because I think it definitely, allows us to see the interdependence of a lot of these communities and the fact that there’s people that really care about doing this work. But I also think you really have to, it’s a, it’s a DIY, like so many, so much of the work that we as arts laborers do is that you have to make this experience what you want.
And so many curators and, and folks in the field have these careers that are, by the end, the everything makes. Sense, but you know, throughout much of it we’re like just piecing together different elements until we become these well-rounded professionals. So
Logan Cryer: I love that. So when you first went to school and you graduated with an arts administration degree, is that correct?
Zindzi Harley: Yes. Yeah. I graduated from University of Kentucky with a BA in Arts Administration and a minor in art history. I.
Logan Cryer: Did you know going into school that that’s what you wanted to study? And when you decided that was going to be your field of study, was there a turning point in terms of what you thought that area of study would lead you to versus what it actually inspired you to start doing?
Zindzi Harley: That’s a really good question. When I actually went off to college initially, so I’m from Nashville, Tennessee. A lot of people don’t know that I’m actually, like, I’m from the south. I was born in Louisville, Kentucky originally, so I’ve, I’ve spent most of my youth in, in the south going to University of Kentucky, coming out of college.
I mean, coming out of high school I had lived in a predominantly white area, very like affluent at the time, and a lot of, you know, the messaging that was given to me. Even applying to college was like one, some of these schools that you’re trying to apply to, like you’re being real ambitious. And I always hated that because I’m like, why are these people telling me that I can’t, like strive to go to some of these colleges that I wanted to go to.
But on top of that it was just more so like, what? What degree can you get that’s going to result in you making money or having some sort of like role that’s more respected in, in the world. And I, I initially studied biology when I went to college, but prior to even graduating high school, when I first went to high school in my, like freshman and sophomore years, I went to Nashville School of the Arts, which is a fine arts school.
So I had always really been into, into the arts. And performance art in particular was what I studied while I was there. So I, I, I was just a, a nerd. I loved, I loved performance, I love the arts. I love to read all of these things. And once I got into college, I’m like, why am I pursuing this degree when this isn’t really what I love?
Like, you know, there has to be a level of discipline, I think, with anything that you really commit yourself to study. And I didn’t feel this. Conviction to be as disciplined about showing up for these biology courses. But as soon as I started taking these art history courses, I was just so engrossed in them.
Like I would show up for all of my classes. My professors were so passionate. I honestly got to study under like a Titan in African art history when I was at University of Kentucky. Her name is Dr. Monica Blackmun Visonà and, it was just, I think that really impacted me thinking about like my future and what I wanted to continue to study.
I really wanted to drop out of college close to the end because I just like, like I said, I barely got through school because I was traveling so much and I realized like, you know, maybe I don’t actually have to get a degree to like be successful in life. Those professors really like them accommodating me.
One, to like just be able to allow me to have certain experiences in college that really have impacted like, you know, the work that I continue to do was amazing and I think it really helped me continue to see the benefit of. Education, but just their passion and their dedication to their craft and, and their study was, was also really inspiring.
So it was like a no-brainer for me towards the end of college to continue to pursue the study of museums or curatorial practice in some capacity. They supported me in doing that. They helped me, you know, apply to graduate school, and that’s what brought me to Philadelphia. I, I’m very grateful for like, my college experience and having such amazing professors and, you know, we don’t typically think about the south when we’re thinking about like, you know.
Becoming these incredible curators or artists were kind of left out of the conversation a lot. I think now we’re starting to center like more discourse around, around the American South, and especially with the rise of like certain mediums and like photography and documentation of, of the south of those histories, it’s coming to the forefront.
But I, I never really thought. Anything that I might have had to say as like a southerner coming into the field was really like, going to be that important to people. But I’m very thankful for, for those professors that, that continue to push me. I still talk to those professors to this day, which I think is amazing.
And yeah, I’m glad that that ended up bringing me to Philadelphia because I’ve gotten so much out of my graduate studies and it’s really helped me further develop my identity as, as a curator and, and a creative in, in the space. So.
Logan Cryer: Do you remember the first show that you curated?
Zindzi Harley: Oh my gosh.
Logan Cryer: So
Zindzi Harley: the first show that I actually curated was.
When I came to Philadelphia, I was working as assistant curator at the African American Museum in Philly, and I was there for about a year and a half, and I worked with two local artists there during my time to curate shows in the galleries. The galleries in their, the auditorium of the museum. So the two artists I worked with were Leroy Kareem Brown, who is a photographer based in Philly.
He typically captures, you know, Philadelphia’s Muslim community in those neighborhoods. Just incredible photographer typically works in black and white. And I curated a show called Beloved Habibi with him and that was amazing. But the show that I curated first there prior to that one was a show called Black Healthcare Studies, which was with Doa Diaz, who is a collage artist based in Philadelphia, and she’s also worked on a business called Jazz Box, which focused on black ephemera and, and creating opportunities for folks to connect around that.
But she’s an amazing artist and. Storyteller and working with her to, for her to commission works that spoke to the disparity of black folks that were pursuing healthcare studies was, was also really inspiring. And I got to work with a student at Jefferson named Janita for that exhibition as well. So those were like the first two shows that I curated like on my own, just originally at amp, which was a really great experience.
The director of curatorial. The curatorial department there vice president, her name is Deja Duckett, and she was on my thesis committee in graduate school. She really like stewarded me into working in my first like black museum, which was amazing because that’s what much of my research was about.
So like I’m very thankful for those opportunities to work with like two local artists that I felt like deserved to, to be in the space and bring some of that talent into the museum. Because at the time we had been receiving a lot of really incredible traveling exhibitions, focusing on, like shows that showcase like the conservation efforts of our collection.
And I really wanted to see more of like that voice of Philadelphia in the, in the museum. So those were the first two shows that I curated. But additionally during my time there, I was able to, work on a show called Sanctuary that was curated by Dexter Wimberley, and that was Derek Adams show.
So that was able to travel to us. I got to work on Bank of America’s Vision and Spirit, which was like an incredible survey of African American artists from the. 19th to the 20th century. So just like wonderful shows. Also our artist and residence there as well. Getting to support Richard Watson, who’s like an OG in Philadelphia and, and his show.
So yeah, great work that I felt like I got to participate in there and, and it was really wonderful to, to really see what, what’s happening in culturally specific museums. because that was something that was very important to me.
Logan Cryer: Is part of the reason that you shifted in working more freelance? Is part of that because you’re also going to school right now?
Or how did that transition kind of happen for you professionally?
Zindzi Harley: So I would say even like during my graduate studies when I was at U Arts. On my way out, I was always, I was always freelancing, even if it was in museums, like I was always doing these part-time roles. So I worked my way up from like a program coordinator to a project curator with past present projects with, which is actually one of the organizations that I.
Really got to like, do curatorial work with prior to the to amp and, and doing shows, doing those shows like independently. So that was work that I was always doing. I worked part-time for ARS Nova Workshop, which is a jazz and contemporary music presenter as their, their manager of community program. So I was always doing like.
Some sort of freelance work in some capacity. because we all know how much of a challenge it is to get like a full-time role in a museum. So prior to even taking that first full-time job there I was doing that. But then following, leaving the museum when I had launched zine which is. The quarterly Arts and culture magazine that, that I had published to just continue doing my, like curatorial work like in a different format, a more like new age approach to the work.
I’ve always been super passionate about zines and like making them alongside some of the projects that I was. Curating or working on with these organizations. Once I had done that, I was like, well, I’m always, I’m always freelancing anyway. I was working with people, but more so kind of just like doing things that weren’t as visible or maybe like Instagram or my website.
You know, I was always doing social media. I was always doing pr, supporting my friends’ businesses, supporting a lot of their endeavors that really like aligned with my mission, and I felt like eventually it was just. It was getting to the point that I’m like, okay, I need to just completely integrate everything that I’m doing because it does all connect.
And I think it’s been interesting because now it is really starting to make more sense and it, it takes time for that to happen sometimes. But yeah, I, I’ve always been like a digital native, like I said, so I’ve always been working in that space. I’ve always been interested in like representation and optics and, and PR and, and connecting with the community in that, in that sense, and working on different public programs.
Stewarding like people into museums in certain capacities. So once I realized these different, like. Opportunities that I was offering to people, these services that I was offering, I felt like I, I had enough to build off of the magazine as like a proof of concept for a lot of the work that I do and house all of that under a creative agency.
So now ZZ is operating. Through both of those channels as like this platform, but also as a resource for, for artists, creatives or, or spaces that are interested in prioritizing, like the storytelling of, of artists and creatives.
Logan Cryer: Yeah. Can you talk, I know you just kind of gave an overview of it, but can you talk a little bit more about Zen Zine just to describe it for someone who hasn’t encountered it, like how would you describe what it is, what the contents are?
Zindzi Harley: Yeah, so wow, this is. Zine really started because like I said, I love, I’ve always loved having fun on social media, and one of the things that I really used to do more frequent frequently was like repost a lot of really cool visual culture that I felt like I was getting to engage with on my feed, and I just wanted to share with people I’ve always loved like editorial magazines.
And I really love sharing exhibitions and and art with people. So if you were to tap through my Instagram stories like a couple years ago, you wouldn’t even have probably seen my face that much. Most of the content that you would’ve seen was just things that I thought were really cool, like plugging people.
And I thought to myself very often, like, how could I make these Instagram stories like live beyond like the 24 hours that they appear for people to look at? And I chatted with a friend about that one day. And I was telling him, oh, I would really love to like start something with this. A couple weeks later, this friend hits me up and is like, Hey, I made these logos for you and I.
This is so awesome. They look amazing like, and literally he tells me that I should call it zz. He had made these logos and I’m like, oh, this is like, this is awesome. This is so cool. Like this is a great name. I love the spin on it. I didn’t think about naming it after myself, but it does make a lot of sense because.
The work that I do, very much so embodies like my own identity and like multicultural background and, and my interest. So once he handed that off to me, I just kind of went from there and I was like, cool, I’m going to start posting. I’m just going to use social media. Started doing that and eventually I felt comfortable like.
Just putting it out there that I would drop a magazine at some point. So a couple months down the line of like just chatting with different friends and people in the community that I really wanted to be a part of it because that’s really what Zinzi was all about, was kind of just honoring like my community around me.
I felt like I didn’t get to do enough work in the museum that got to honor them and share the space with them in that capacity. So I was like, how can I like. Maximize that and do as much as I can in like one really powerful hit. So that’s what I was going for with the magazine. I wanted to prioritize like black artists of color bipoc artists, and I wanted to really just showcase like how awesome Philadelphia’s cultural landscape is.
So in doing that, I feel like anything that I do, I wanted it to have like a level of swagger to it. I had no budget at all to start zine, so I kind of just did everything off of the muscle and you know, I had friends hit me up that were interested in like supporting it and eventually, you know, honestly just having faith in the project and being really ambitious, we were able to get support from a brand that I had been working with called Newly, which is one of Urban Outfitters subsidiaries.
So they did like a print campaign that honestly really helped fud like the, the whole magazine and. I was able to partner with Atmos to do the first issue. It was called For the Love because Philadelphia is the city of brotherly love and sisterly affection. So I, yeah, that was really my mission with the first magazine.
And then I wanted to just improve the concept and then get deeper into some of that storytelling with the second issue. So then we released Concrete Carnival, which was all about connecting the West Indies to the East Coast because I am. Of Caribbean descent. My family is from the US Virgin Islands aside from being from the south as well.
So I was just very interested in, you know, showcasing like the intersectionality of that culture because there’s, there’s so many different people that, that come from that cultural heritage, especially in Philadelphia. I had been working on a like recurring party series with. A DJ named Sby Liv that I had been freelancing with as well.
And I felt like it just really aligned. It was this really awesome summer of just like really being inspired and, and enjoying, like, connecting with other people from, from my community. And I wanted to take that into the magazine so. Yeah, it was just, I think that second issue was even more beautiful from like a design perspective, but I think it also started to really bring out even more of my curatorial voice.
And with that second issue and that series that we had been working on that summer, all Spice world Dance, which was. You know, just like a reggaeton dance party that we were doing. I had been invited by the National Liberty Museum to work on another project about the power of music and like amplifying that storytelling as well.
And they, they thought the series was really awesome, so they decided to take the photography that we had documented of that summer and put it into an exhibition that they were doing. So it was really cool to just see how it went from like. Engaging in real life with folks in my community in like a really cool way, which I think a lot of people don’t imagine.
Like you don’t go into a museum and think you’re going to see pictures of like a reggae tone or dance hall party, right? So to see it go from like a real life. Event where people were connecting with me. I could be myself. I wasn’t thinking about myself just as a, a curator, but just as a person who was a part of this landscape and had friends and was connected with, with my community to doing the magazine, having this like visual culture that that came out of it because we did commission a lot of the shoots for the magazine in house.
We made those ads ourselves and to like, not only make beautiful images, because I think a lot of black artists are really in the business of like contemporary image right now, but also like thinking of the image as a object and developing language around that so that. Like I said, that was something I was always interested in.
So with the second issue, I really wanted to dive even deeper into that. And then to see it like, you know, end up in a museum was really, really cool and inspiring and felt very full circle. So yeah, ZZ has continued to to be something that I’m always thinking about, but right now I’m even more focused on like what is the next frontier for that in terms of like creating a level of continuity.
And, and providing more content that people are interested in and discourse and dialogue around, around art. So I’m excited to do another issue of it. It’s something that I’m really interested in doing, and I want to be even more intentional with the next one because it’s. So much work, and it does require a lot of, a lot of hands on deck.
So yeah, there’ll, there’ll be more coming with zine and, and for now I’m really hoping to be able to continue the, to leverage that creative agency aspect of the work that we’re doing and show up in person and continue to bring folks into museums.
Logan Cryer: Yeah. When we’re done this interview, I definitely have some like follow up things I want to ask about just on a personal level, but to kind of close out, I’m curious if you could articulate this, and I’m sure this is something you have thought about for many years, but especially at this moment or thinking about in your approach to becoming a doctorate.
I’m curious how you would articulate what is your area of expertise? I think it’s interesting how you’ve talked about how you, you’ve had all these experiences and all these things. Are you able to summarize what your expertise is? Does that feel clear or does that still feel like something you’re figuring out?
Zindzi Harley: Yeah, I think, I think I’m very, I’m still very, very early in my career. I feel like I’m still at the genesis of, of, you know what My story as a curator is. I know what my interests are and what I hope to continue to be able to provide more insight and expertise into the work that I do in terms of like the collaborations that I do, whether it’s like city girl juries or curating shows.
So I’m always looking to bring artists of African descent into the conversation. So I definitely prioritize art. Design material culture of the African diaspora, does that include black contemporary art? Sometimes. Does that include art from the Caribbean? Yes. So I, I think that’s a more general way of, of describing what my particular interest in terms of a aesthetic.
But I think in terms of the expertise that I provide overall when it comes to. The institutional work that I do, it’s very much so about centering black women and the activism that they’ve continued to contribute to the field is very important to me. And I think in pursuing the doctorate, hopefully I will be able to create some sort of resource resource.
Or anthology that really chronicles this history. I think black women have been incredible leaders within these institutions, particularly black museums, but from every standpoint they’ve been so innovative, innovative, and continue to progress the field. Whether that’s like. Artists and their studio practices, the institutional work, like I said, that they’re doing, coming up with new ways to interpret material and program around these shows and the work that’s happening in these spaces championing diversity and equity in these inclusivity efforts within museums.
So I think Afro feminism and womanism has always been an approach of care, and I think that’s something that’s very true to my curatorial practices that I legitimately care about. The people that I’m bringing into these spaces, I care about what they have to say about the work. I care about how they go about doing the work, and whether they’re supported in doing that.
I think it’s just a matter of me as a curator to do what I feel a curator is supposed to do, which is advocate for artists, because I think that they’re, they’re doing a lot more of the heavy lifting. I think what I get to do is, is really have fun, get to pose these questions, get to, you know, kind of.
Support them in going deeper with the work and being able to be even more impactful. And I, I honestly think that just like the opportunity to, to showcase my own taste is something that I love about being a curator as well. But yeah, I’m, I’m always prioritizing. Art of the African diaspora, prioritizing artist and, and Afro feminism.
And I would say that is definitely my, like, expertise and, and the particulars that I have been wanting to focus on these days within my career. So.
Logan Cryer: And if there’s someone listening who is resonating with those topics or has resonated with anything that you are doing currently or have done in the past, is there a way that they can reach out to you that they can collaborate with you?
Zindzi Harley: Yeah. Yeah. So I’m always really accessible through email. My email is zindziharley@gmail.com. So if you ever want to drop me a line, I love when people send me correspondence and, you know, even if it’s just somebody looking to like be mentored or. Wanting to connect more about the work that I’m doing, I’m happy to, to chat.
My website is a really great way to access me, so zindziharley.com. That’s where you can learn more about Zindzine and the services that I provide and the programming or ways that I’m showing up in person as well. And then additionally, like I said, social media is a really great place to access me as well.
So my Instagram handle is Zindzi Lohan. So ZINDZ-I-L-O-H-A-N. Yeah, I’ve always been super cheeky. So yeah, that’s, that, that is the perfect example of my love for social. So yeah, those are great opportunities to con to connect with me.
Another thing that I’m super passionate about is Black Girls in Art Spaces, which is an organization of an incredible black woman named Casey Merriweather Hawkins.
I’ve been able to found the Philadelphia chapter. Here and have been able to do some really incredible meetups and bring black women into museums. I’m really excited about 2025 and hopefully we’ll get to do a couple more meetups this year at some great museums. We’ve had amazing, like black shows delivering throughout Philadelphia recently, so if you’re ever looking to like.
See me in person. I would say always look out for black girls in the art spaces and like what they’re doing in Philly, because I’ll most likely either be there hosting or supporting in some capacity. So yeah, those are a couple ways you can connect with me.
Logan Cryer: Well, thank you so much for talking with me.
Zindzi Harley: Yeah, this has been awesome. I do definitely feel way more like energetic now than we’ve like, you know, powered through this convo, but it, it always brings more clarity honestly to, to the work that I do and how I. That just being in conversation and community with people. So I definitely appreciate it.
Logan Cryer: Thank you for listening to Artblog Radio. Please be sure to listen to our other episodes and to check out theartblog.org for more content on Philadelphia Arts and Culture.
